The American Dream from an Englishman’s POV

Saturday night, I went out for dinner with the Mather’s and the Mather’s dad. The Mather’s are friends of ours who got married last summer.

After two bottles of wine, we got to talking about the health reform bill, America versus England, immigration, etc. It comes up quite often in conversations over here, but I always glean something different from the conversations, especially when there is an older generation around to put their two cents in…or even their two pence.

It was the father’s interpretation of the “American dream” that I found the most fascinating. To him, the American dream represented an immigrant who came to the United States, and despite the fact that our government doesn’t dish out free health care (well, at least it didn’t), free welfare, disability, etc. – immigrants still fight for a place in our economic and social ladder. The question would be – why? Why does this dream that doesn’t give you anything for free still entice someone to fight, to strain and to yearn to be a part of it? It got us debating the idea that’s behind it, and this fact, and this fact alone still keeps the American dream as the most coveted of them all – opportunity.

It’s the idea that through the stress, turmoil and back-breaking work, one has the ability to come from nothing and work his way up to gain everything. Foreigners still want to become an American citizen, despite not getting free in return. And, although I wholeheartedly believe that the health care reform is the way forward, you can’t help but wonder what type of “new immigrant” this will bring to our country.

In England, the father said between bites of his sausage, immigrants fight to come into the UK so they can become complacent, get free money from the dole, and steal from the National Health System. Now, I’m sure this is a wide, sweeping generalization and doesn’t in any way reflect the range of immigrants coming into England, but you have to wonder why so many English people believe this to be true. Do people want to come here simply to get a free ride? I know this topic brings heated arguments to the table whenever brought up, but it is just something I find fascinating to think about.

In America, we pride ourselves on being a self-sufficient nation. People are so angry with the health care because they are afraid of what this means to that self-sufficiency they work hard to keep. Since living in this country, I have become even more proud of that characteristic most of us hold. I see that we don’t expect anything from anyone else, and when we want things done, we get them done. Service is impeccable, and we’re a well-oiled machine always striving for more. I get frustrated with the placated dullness here. (But overjoyed at the simple, niceties and caring that comes from this.)

Since I’ve lived here, I’ve also become sad about this characteristic of Americans as well. It’s a double-edged sword because as independent as we like to think we are, we are a lonely, depressed and selfish nation. We aren’t forgiving to our workers – we expect them to work full time with two weeks break. We don’t offer much in return, but expect the world. We look down on people who might put their families over their job, mothers who stay at home, or friends who don’t have any aspirations to better themselves financially. Our first question when we meet someone is, “So, what do you do?” Not, “So, how was your day?”

I love it and I hate it about me. It’s who I am though.

There will be repercussions – good and bad – to this health care reform, and let’s hope there will be a future generation who never knew what it was like to have a brother in law declare bankruptcy over a broken jaw, or a family member who had to dish out $3,000 a month because he got cancer, or a mother who you’re worried about falling ill because she isn’t covered.

Yes, the future generation may end up taking it for granted like many in England do simply because they don’t know any different…and we may end up getting some waifs and strays who want to take advantage of our health care…but to me, that’s better than letting our hardworking citizens die.

Will our entire nation begin to harbor different characteristics than the one it was built on because of this bill? Or, is that too much weight to put on one simple delegation?

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  • http://www.iheart-paula.blogspot.com Paula

    Oh, and also, the new law doesn't take effect for 4 years, so you're right we won't see it's effects for awhile and it's effects are what worry me more than anything. If we continue on the path we're on, by 2020 our nations debt will be 90% of our GDP. America cannot survive in that situation. No nation could survive in that situation. You can read about it here: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/26/c… . What kind of country are we leaving to our children? It really makes me sad. What are they going to think of us when we are leaving them will all of this debt that they have no chance of come out from under?

  • http://michelloui.blogspot.com Michelloui

    The strength of a society is demonstrated by how it treats its most vulnerable people.

    If I could be radical (just for the purposes of 'food for thought') what America has done in the past with healthcare is 'healthcare by exclusion'. In other words, only a certain demographic could receive healthcare…excluding the other demographics and allowing them to suffer, go bankrupt and even die because they could not afford the high cost of American insurance and/or healthcare is a barely disguised form of Euthanasia of the Less Fortunate.

    Passively allowing people to suffer and die is a short step from actively choosing a group of people to suffer and die. Morally, even the passive action is indefensible. Shame on those who don't wish to see this changed.

    Not a Western Ideal or Social Justice is it?! The land of the Free and home of the Brave? It seems only the wealthy are free and only the people who stand up to the wealthy are brave (for this discussion; of course there are many brave Americans).

    The former American healthcare/insurance situation can also be considered Healthcare Apartheid. Or simply discrimination.

    When I heard Obama describe watching his ill mother on the phone begging with insurers to help her I knew he would do something about healthcare. I also knew there would be no overnight solution, but a *step in the right direction* is the first step of this journey that America is at last undertaking.

    Regarding the idea that the UK social system invites people who will abuse the system… there will always be someone who finds a way to abuse any system, immigrant or native. The millions of Americans who are currently suffering and dying because of the corrupt insurance system in the States should not continue to suffer so that spongers aren't attracted to any new developments in healthcare. Strict immigration legislation is the route on that one.

  • http://www.anglotopia.net Jonathanwthomas

    Interesting topic of discussion. I really wish Brits would have a better view of the immigrants who want to come to the country and live and work there and not sponge off the state. It’s very frustrating.

    I think the American dream is a crapshoot. It’s not a dream anymore, it’s a nightmare that rewards a select few while the rest of us just get by and worry about the future. I’m part of the generation that went to college and was sold the dream of college/job/life and it’s such a lie.

    Between college debt, healthcare and a broken political system – combined with a ridiculously stupid population – my American dream is to leave this bloody country.This whole healthcare debate has been incredibly offensive to my wife and I. It just makes sense that we should give a shit about our fellow man and insure that healthcare is a fundamental right. We all have a right to live. And yet we allow corporations to decide whether we live or die. It’s disgusting and it just doesn’t work. I hate that two weeks paid vacation is considered ‘generous.’

    We want to live in the UK because the population is not as stupid as Americans, not as religious, much more sensible, has a national healthcare system that works (for the most part), respects intellectualism and education, has a political system actually prone to change —- I could go on an on.

    The American dream is dead. RIP. I’m going to get it from somewhere else.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/meglopes TheLadyWhoLunches

      Great response Jonathan. It surely does hit where it hurts – for me too. I remember having a discussion with a friend of mine a few years ago when we were fresh out of college. We both agreed that our family, school system and society makes us all believe that we are the most special thing on the planet as a child, and that we are capable of achieving anything. And, while I still perhaps a bit naively believe that this is, for the large part, true, I can't help but think that there are certainly more than a few setbacks that America throws at you.

      When I lived in LA for eight years, working random full time jobs in order to pay for my health care, car insurance, student loans (that have an interest rate of 8% mind you), rent, etc I thought I was working towards that dream. What you find out is that actually, LA is nepotism to the T. Unless you were Madonna's child, Jewish, or willing to make an extreme fool of yourself to become "famous", it just wasn't going to happen. I still believe there are backdoor ways in, like writing your own script Matt Damon styley…but getting that done before the age of 30 (as a woman) is HARD.

      So, yes, I agree – at least here in the UK they take care of their people, and although it does breed some less-than-hard-working people, at least they have that option. In America, we believe it's our duty to break our backs for our country. Forget that.

  • http://www.seattleiteimagery.blogspot.com alisha

    I feel the same way about the double-edged sword of self-sufficiency and selfishness. You say it so well.

    I save my comments on healthcare for a rainy day. :) Keep the great posts coming!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/meglopes TheLadyWhoLunches

      Thanks Alisha. It is definitely a love/hate relationship for me.

  • http://www.iheart-paula.blogspot.com Paula

    This post is so interesting to me. I never knew that the English felt that way about their immigrants (wanting to come to England to be taken care of), but I always knew that about immigrants who wanted to come to America – knowing they will have to work hard for what they want, but knowing through that hard work they can be successful beyond anything they could achieve back home.

    This is also what makes me feel uncomfortable about this new health care situation. Having something given to you by the government. It's very un-American. I don't want America to change. We have the most sought after health care in the world precisely because of competion. There is great ingenuity that comes from competition. That is why there have been more Nobel winners in medicine from America than any other country. How sad for the incentive for achievment to be taken away by federalizing medicine.

    Sorry to vent! I started typing and just couldn't stop.

    Anyway, loved your post!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/meglopes TheLadyWhoLunches

      Hi Paula! It is interesting about health care. With the new system, it seems there will still be competition and most people will still have to pay for health care. It probably won't change things drastically for a long time, but you do wonder about future generations. I am happy we are taking care of our people now because there are people who simply can't afford it, but I understand the fear that others have.

      • http://www.iheart-paula.blogspot.com Paula

        Yes, we indeed will still have to pay for healthcare. In fact, we will be forced to buy the government's health care. Judge Andrew Napolitano said that with this government health care plan the government is forcing you to buy something in order for you to be a legal citizen of this country. What? They are forcing me to buy something? I don't feel very free when they are forcing me to buy something. I feel so uncomfortable with that.

        Another thing that is making me so uncomfortable is that every poll (Gallup, Rasmussen, Zogby, Pollster…) says that a large majority of Americans did not want this Health Care law. Of course there needs to be reform, but this is not the law that people wanted. I feel very uncomfortable with a government that does what THEY want and not what their constituents want.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/eoshea eoshea

    To me, the health care discussion comes down to what are fundamental rights. And these "rights" change over time – I mean, remember back in the day when our forefathers wrote the Constitution, slavery was legal and women had no stated rights. So given that rights change over time, health care becomes part of the larger context of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Of course, I'd throw high speed Internet in to that too. :-)

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/meglopes TheLadyWhoLunches

      Definitely agree. This is what our forefathers originally wanted for us, I believe. Read Jonathan's comment below. It's really interesting what he wrote! And yes, now the Africans have high speed internet too! Now we just need to make sure everyone of them has mosquito nets as well.

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/divinedecay divinedecay

    The healthcare thing seems like a no brainer to me. I don't like the British system or the American one, mostly for the reasons you mention.

    I'm going to be queen of the world, and when I am healthcare will be free for under 18's and the disabled. Everyone else will have the choice to buy insurance or not, but the premiums for insurance will be fixed at 3 different levels for the quality of care (ie those who want a fancy hospital have to pay higher premiums but all get the same type of care for all conditions). No screening for existing conditions (that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.) It really seems like a no-brainer to me.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/meglopes TheLadyWhoLunches

      Oh I like it! Yes, both have big faults, but yours seems fab. When does this decree come into effect? Can I get a DAME in front of my name if you are Queen of the world?